Curse

brimruk · May 04, 2009, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Hey all, as the thread says, I've made a PvE sin build and want to see what you all think of it. I've tried to build it up as a spike build, as in shutting down one target as quick as possible.
1.) [Golden Fox Strike] or [Jagged Strike]
2.) [Palm Strike]
3.) [Trampling Ox]
4.) [Falling Spider]
5.) [Malicious Strike]
6.) [Death's Charge]
7.) [Resurrection Signet]
8.) [Way of Perfection]

I like the fact that most of the attack skills have a quick recharge, meaning that if the target isn't dead from one rotation, it will be in a max of 2. If anyone's got criticism, I'll gladly accept it, because something about the build feels lout of place to me. Maybe pop a [Critical Agility] in place of [Resurrection Signet]?

turbo234 · May 04, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54

you do realize palm strike doesn't need a lead attack right?

brimruk · May 04, 2009, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo234

you do realize palm strike doesn't need a lead attack right?

Yeah, but knowing I'd be running at least one enchantment I thought I'd take advantage of it.

Archress Shayleigh · May 04, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Either remove Lead Attack for [critical agility] or otherwise use [Jagged strike] for bleeding pressure.

zelgadissan · May 04, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Needs a dual attack as a finisher after Falling Spider, the two most common are either [[Twisting Fangs] or [[Blades of Steel]. Also, like turbo mentioned, drop the lead for it.

Also, since I see you have Nightfall, there cannot possibly be a reason for not having [[Critical Agility] on the bar.

Celeborn10 · May 04, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archress Shayleigh

Either remove Lead Attack for [critical agility] or otherwise use [Jagged strike] for bleeding pressure.

Just use Critical Agility. Spreading bleeding is massive pressure? The only use I've found for it is as a built in cover condition on Twisting Fangs.

Killamus · May 04, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

1) Assassins don't need resurrection skills, they're usually the first to die.
2) Palm Strike doesn't require a lead attack. I don't know if you want the lead attack in there for extra damage or you just didn't know that.
3) For spiking, conditions shouldn't be necessary, aside from deep wound and/or cracked armor. Cracked armor should be applied before your spike (Or the first attack), and deep wound should be applied later in the spike. However, you need an attack after it's applied in order for it to be effective.
4) Your critical chance is actually pretty low, even for an assassin without critical eye. If you're not going to put it in there, I would recommend either taking 2 points out of crit or DM and specing into healing prayers with vigorious spirit.

brimruk · May 04, 2009, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

1) Assassins don't need resurrection skills, they're usually the first to die.
2) Palm Strike doesn't require a lead attack. I don't know if you want the lead attack in there for extra damage or you just didn't know that.
3) For spiking, conditions shouldn't be necessary, aside from deep wound and/or cracked armor. Cracked armor should be applied before your spike (Or the first attack), and deep wound should be applied later in the spike. However, you need an attack after it's applied in order for it to be effective.
4) Your critical chance is actually pretty low, even for an assassin without critical eye. If you're not going to put it in there, I would recommend either taking 2 points out of crit or DM and specing into healing prayers with vigorious spirit.

Maybe calling it "spiking" was the wrong term. Perhaps pressure would be a better one? The massive amounts of damage and conditions would either kill the mob outright, or put enough pressure on the monk to disable it too. I know it's not the perfect build, hence why I came here to see if I could tweak it a bit.

Lux Aeterna · May 04, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Let's see I've got this chain memorized from having it used on me:

[palm strike][trampling ox][falling spider][horns of the ox][twisting fangs]

There are many variations of that, one I have saved has 7 attacks but I haven't got it memorized. You could substitute in [repeating strike] for [horns of the ox], as many enemies will be adjacent in pve, though there isn't a "must be KDed" attack following horns of the ox (ie falling lotus strike) in that chain so if enemies were adjacent it would not break it...

RadaArashi · May 04, 2009, 07:34 PM // 19:34

I'm not too sure about Trampling Ox in PvE because of the 8 second recharge. To me that long feels like an eternity unless you got Moebius Strike or Assassin's promise to recharge it or you could carry Death Blossom as a secondary dual that you can use while Ox is recharging.

Your chain could go something like Palm Strike -> Trampling Ox -> Falling Spider Strike -> Death Blossom -> Palm Strike -> Death Blossom

or Moebius Strike -> Death Blossom ad infinitum works well

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

You could substitute in [repeating strike] for [horns of the ox], as many enemies will be adjacent in pve, though there isn't a "must be KDed" attack following horns of the ox (ie falling lotus strike) in that chain so if enemies were adjacent it would not break it...

If thats the case then why not Death Blossom instead of Horns of the Ox? it has a much shorter recharge, does way more damage and since you won't be getting that many knockdowns anyways, you're not really missing out on it right?

Zzes Tyan · May 04, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Let's see I've got this chain memorized from having it used on me:

[palm strike][trampling ox][falling spider][horns of the ox][twisting fangs]

There are many variations of that, one I have saved has 7 attacks but I haven't got it memorized. You could substitute in [repeating strike] for [horns of the ox], as many enemies will be adjacent in pve, though there isn't a "must be KDed" attack following horns of the ox (ie falling lotus strike) in that chain so if enemies were adjacent it would not break it...

^2 Duals in a row

its [palm strike][trampling ox][falling spider][horns of the ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs] although you can fit 2 fallings after the KD if you have a 33% IAS

Helix Dreadlock · May 04, 2009, 08:26 PM // 20:26

I suggest putting in [Golden Lotus Strike] as opposed to the lead attack for energy management, and replace [resurrection signet] for [Critical Agility].

brimruk · May 04, 2009, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadaArashi

I'm not too sure about Trampling Ox in PvE because of the 8 second recharge. To me that long feels like an eternity unless you got Moebius Strike or Assassin's promise to recharge it or you could carry Death Blossom as a secondary dual that you can use while Ox is recharging.

Your chain could go something like Palm Strike -> Trampling Ox -> Falling Spider Strike -> Death Blossom -> Palm Strike -> Death Blossom

or Moebius Strike -> Death Blossom ad infinitum works well

If thats the case then why not Death Blossom instead of Horns of the Ox? it has a much shorter recharge, does way more damage and since you won't be getting that many knockdowns anyways, you're not really missing out on it right?

On a 100AL target, Trampling Ox's recharge is almost perfectly synchronized when I get to it for the 2nd rotation around. Granted, not many targets do have 100AL, but given time for switching, lag, and running and starting attack, I think the 8 second recharge works out fine.

Anything above 8 is a little iffy. 10 or 12 seconds of recharge means I'll have a lot more downtime, but we'll see. So far, my assassin is ripping stuff apart just fine.

zelgadissan · May 04, 2009, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzes Tyan

^2 Duals in a row

Yes, because Palm Strike recharges so fast, the actual chain goes:
[Palm Strike][Trampling Ox][Falling Spider][Horns of the Ox][Palm Strike][Twisting Fangs]

Edit: agreed with Bobby, Palm Strike builds are for PvP - just explaining the above quote

Bobby2 · May 04, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by brimruk

Hey all, as the thread says, I've made a PvE sin build and want to see what you all think of it. I've tried to build it up as a spike build, as in shutting down one target as quick as possible.
1.) [Golden Fox Strike] or [Jagged Strike] Jagged is really bad, GFS is useless on a PS sin
2.) [Palm Strike] Sure you don't wanna use [moebius strike]?
3.) [Trampling Ox]
4.) [Falling Spider]
5.) [Malicious Strike] there are better ways of keeping up Agility
6.) [Death's Charge] teleporting in PvE is cute, but unnecessary
7.) [Resurrection Signet] sure, why not
8.) [Way of Perfection] Crap skill

Maybe pop a [Critical Agility] in place of [Resurrection Signet]? there are worse skills than the res sig on your bar

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Yes, because Palm Strike recharges so fast, the actual chain goes:
[palm strike][trampling ox][falling spider][horns of the ox][palm strike][twisting fangs]

With an IAS, 4 seconds suddenly seems like a really long time. Besides, noone in their right mind would run HotO in PvE

I think the best you could do with PS is:

[palm strike][trampling ox][falling spider][death blossom][critical agility][critical eye][optional][optional]

(but srsly just run Moebius.)

Lux Aeterna · May 04, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Better yet make a perma SF tank and have your party love you, instead of adding moderate amounts of damage at the expense of being a low defense frontline.

Certain builds go far beyond the usual capabilities of their class... [glyph of swiftness][deadly paradox][shadow form], [dragon slash][save yourselves] etcetera

Shadow form tanks are great because their low AL/ HP means that most of the monsters will attack them at the exclusion of real squshies, similar to the way minions do.

Helix Dreadlock · May 04, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Better yet make a perma SF tank and have your party love you, instead of adding moderate amounts of damage at the expense of being a low defense frontline.

Certain builds go far beyond the usual capabilities of their class... [glyph of swiftness][deadly paradox][shadow form], [dragon slash][save yourselves] etcetera

Shadow form tanks are great because their low AL/ HP means that most of the monsters will attack them at the exclusion of real squshies, similar to the way minions do.

How do you equip Dragon Slash and Shadow Form on one bar?

_Nihilist_ · May 05, 2009, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock

How do you equip Dragon Slash and Shadow Form on one bar?

Notice that after the Shadow Form chain there is a "," before the DSlash+SY! combo. Lux was giving 2 examples (but not the only 2 examples) of skill combos that exceed nearly anything else a profession could do (in this case, a Perma Form combo and a DSlash SY! combo, one for Sin, one for Warr, not 5 skills on a single bar).

Super Igor · May 05, 2009, 11:01 AM // 11:01

[critical agility][critical eye][brawling headbutt][golden fox strike][wild strike][moebius strike][death blossom][save yourselves!]

Bobby2 · May 05, 2009, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

[brawling headbutt]

Why bother? Even DS spammers largely forget about Brawling-Steelfang until FGJ! runs out.
Make 'em jealous with [asuran scan] or [you move like a dwarf] instead.